Wow! It’s Wednesday! But What About (Black) Love
One brief somewhat sunny moment for CH and I on our first big vacation to Hawaii. It was unseasonably cold and rained the entire time we were there, yet we still had a TON of fun. One of many signs that he was 'the one."
So I talked yesterday about how the media and some bloggers love this story of how BW-WM relationships come to be: Black woman starts off dating within her race. Discovers that there are no “good” black men. Decides to marry a white man b/c of this dearth.
That wasn’t the case with me, but I did used to be one of those sisters that didn’t date outside of her race. In fact, I didn’t go on a date with a white guy until I was 24, and I didn’t seriously date one until I was 25. When I look back on it, I can barely remember why I thought it would be so wrong to date a white guy, even though for the majority of my dating years I held this to be true.
I remember feeling angry whenever I read about what white slave owners did to black female slaves and vowing that I’d never get mixed up with a white guy. Also, I was raised in a mostly black community, and I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of my fellow black girls that dated white boys growing up. It just wasn’t done. But mostly I had an image of what my life would be like and it had Cosby Show — not that sidekick couple from The Jeffersons — written all over it.
I’ve mostly California to thank for changing my mind on this subject. Let me tell you, for whatever reason, I have always attracted mostly nice guys. There is something about me that assholes just do not like. I never understood why, but I seriously could not get a bad boy if my life depended on it. This was fortunate, b/c I have little tolerance for bad boys and the feeling was deeply mutual.
However, when I got to California, it wasn’t just nice black guys showing an interest, it was also nice white guys. Really nice white guys. This had been the case while I was abroad in Japan, too, but it was really, really the case in California. So I maintain that it wasn’t a lack of black guys in my dating pool that convinced me to finally start dating outside of my race but a surplus of white guys. It also didn’t hurt that my militant feelings surrounding BW-WM relationships were starting to fade as college got further away.
With little to no fanfare, I gauged the California situation and just changed my mind. Go figure. Really I consider it a growing up of sorts.
Yet I don’t agree with IR supporters who insist that black women must widen their dating pool, because there is something wrong with black men in general. I know black men in strong marriages with black women and black men in strong IR marriages and black men who have no business having children or getting married until they do some work on themselves. But I’m sure every woman of every race could state the same about the men within her race. And I don’t think it serves anyone to encourage interracial relationships by putting members of your own race down. Trust me, black men have not cornered the bad marriage material market.
I think putting any kind of external caveat on love is a really bad idea. And though I understand that many black people feel that they won’t truly be understood by a person outside of their race, I would encourage everyone to be open to love in whatever form it arrives. There’s a difference between someone who gets you politically and someone who gets you emotionally. IMO political understanding can be taught and worked out. Racial differences can be embraced and explored. Emotional understanding and complete acceptance is the tough one.
So to my fellow women, I say if someone comes along who has the possibility of “getting you” in this way, if you have the same level of ambition, similar goals, and you turn him or her down because they don’t fit into the the image of who you would want to be with, then I question whether you yourself are really open to or ready for love.
Here’s what I know for sure, love is a quality game. There is a severely limited number of people on this earth who will love you, support you in the way you need to be supported, and with whom you are going to want to spend the rest of your life. If that person comes along, hold on to her or him. No matter what. At the end of the day, I don’t believe in Black Love, I only believe in True Love, because it’s a beautiful thing and so incredibly hard to find.
But let’s talk about this further. I wonder how our other readers in IR relationships came to start dating outside of their race. Was it a particular person or event that made you change your mind or have you always been an open-minded dater? Also, feel free to disagree with me if you’re a proponent of Black Love. Either way…
100% Love,
etc
This makes me think of two friends of mine, both white women. One always dates (and now has married) Latino men, who have been plentiful since she's spent her dating years in South America and then CA. The other always dates non-white men — black, Latino, Asian, mixed, take your pick, anything but white. At times she has lived in 98% white communities, but she's always found the non-white guys and dated them (IIRC, there were 3 black guys in her high school of 1000+ and she dated all 3).
No one has ever said that either of these women couldn't find a good white man. It's just that they prefer something else, no big deal. In fact, a lot of people find it rather cute, rather than signaling the death of a culture.
As for me, as the product of an interracial relationship (who usually passes for white and mostly identifies with white culture), the few relationships I had before meeting my (white) husband have been with white guys. I have been attracted to men of other races, including those from the non-white part of my lineage and those of mixed ethnicity, but it never materialized. I'm so picky that race is the least of it for me; I'm sure I've rejected more white men than men of color, just because more white men have shown interest.
True Love all the way.
This makes me think of two friends of mine, both white women. One always dates (and now has married) Latino men, who have been plentiful since she's spent her dating years in South America and then CA. The other always dates non-white men — black, Latino, Asian, mixed, take your pick, anything but white. At times she has lived in 98% white communities, but she's always found the non-white guys and dated them (IIRC, there were 3 black guys in her high school of 1000+ and she dated all 3).
No one has ever said that either of these women couldn't find a good white man. It's just that they prefer something else, no big deal. In fact, a lot of people find it rather cute, rather than signaling the death of a culture.
As for me, as the product of an interracial relationship (who usually passes for white and mostly identifies with white culture), the few relationships I had before meeting my (white) husband have been with white guys. I have been attracted to men of other races, including those from the non-white part of my lineage and those of mixed ethnicity, but it never materialized. I'm so picky that race is the least of it for me; I'm sure I've rejected more white men than men of color, just because more white men have shown interest.
True Love all the way.
This makes me think of two friends of mine, both white women. One always dates Latino men (and now has married one), who have been plentiful since she's spent her dating years in South America and then CA. The other always dates non-white men — black, Latino, Asian, mixed, take your pick, anything but white. At times she has lived in 98% white communities, but she's always managed to find the non-white guys and dated them (IIRC, there were 3 black guys in her high school of 1000+ and she dated all 3).
No one has ever said that either of these women couldn't find a good white man. It's just that they prefer something else, no big deal. In fact, a lot of people find it rather cute, rather than signaling the death of a culture.
As for me, as the product of an interracial relationship (who usually passes for white and mostly identifies with white culture), the few relationships I had before meeting my (white) husband have been with white guys. I have been attracted to men of other races, including those from the non-white part of my lineage and those of mixed ethnicity, but it never materialized. I'm so picky that race is the least of it for me; I'm sure I've rejected more white men than men of color, just because more white men have shown interest.
True Love all the way.
I've actually rejected more black men I think, just b/c they've been more likely to come at me in an untoward way that I don't appreciate. I wonder if men are more likely to approach women of their own race in an uncool way. It's happened to me across the color spectrum — I'm not going to even talk about the out-of-control awful, awful Japanese business men while I was abroad — but it seemed to happen to me more within my own race.
And to add on to my "not attracting assholes" comment, I don't think there was something about me that attracted these awful come ons, but something about their standard MO — you know "cast a wide net and some poor drunk or low self-esteem girl will bite."
This makes me think of two friends of mine, both white women. One always dates Latino men (and now has married one), who have been plentiful since she's spent her dating years in South America and then CA. The other always dates non-white men — black, Latino, Asian, mixed, take your pick, anything but white. At times she has lived in 98% white communities, but she's always managed to find the non-white guys and dated them (IIRC, there were 3 black guys in her high school of 1000+ and she dated all 3).
No one has ever said that either of these women couldn't find a good white man. It's just that they prefer something else, no big deal. In fact, a lot of people find it rather cute, rather than signaling the death of a culture.
As for me, as the product of an interracial relationship (who usually passes for white and mostly identifies with white culture), the few relationships I had before meeting my (white) husband have been with white guys. I have been attracted to men of other races, including those from the non-white part of my lineage and those of mixed ethnicity, but it never materialized. I'm so picky that race is the least of it for me; I'm sure I've rejected more white men than men of color, just because more white men have shown interest.
True Love all the way.
I've actually rejected more black men I think, just b/c they've been more likely to come at me in an untoward way that I don't appreciate. I wonder if men are more likely to approach women of their own race in an uncool way. It's happened to me across the color spectrum — I'm not going to even talk about the out-of-control awful, awful Japanese business men while I was abroad — but it seemed to happen to me more within my own race.
And to add on to my "not attracting assholes" comment, I don't think there was something about me that attracted these awful come ons, but something about their standard MO — you know "cast a wide net and some poor drunk or low self-esteem girl will bite."
Great post, Ernessa. When I met Frankie (back in college!) I remember telling a friend that he was cute and sweet and lots of fun, but it would never be more than a summer fling because I couldn't see myself ever getting serious with a non-black guy. You couldn't have made be believe we'd be married with kids 10 years later. It just wasn't possible in the narrow, 19-year-old, world view that I had at the time. But he is undoubetedly the kindest, most thoughtful and generous man I have ever met. And I'm so grateful that I was open minded enough to give him a shot. Even if it only was for the summer. Ha!
Hahaha, I remember thinking Frankie was a great guy back when we were in college. I'm glad that summer fling plan didn't quite work out.
Great post, Ernessa. When I met Frankie (back in college!) I remember telling a friend that he was cute and sweet and lots of fun, but it would never be more than a summer fling because I couldn't see myself ever getting serious with a non-black guy. You couldn't have made be believe we'd be married with kids 10 years later. It just wasn't possible in the narrow, 19-year-old, world view that I had at the time. But he is undoubetedly the kindest, most thoughtful and generous man I have ever met. And I'm so grateful that I was open minded enough to give him a shot. Even if it only was for the summer. Ha!
Hahaha, I remember thinking Frankie was a great guy back when we were in college. I'm glad that summer fling plan didn't quite work out.
I don't know if I'm qualified to comment thoughtfully on your post because I am not currently in an IR relationship nor have I ever experienced one. The closest I ever came was bringing a black male friend (who I think is now married to a white woman) to a sorority function in Texas. Since it was not California, you can imagine how well that went over with the sisters. From that very small experience, I give great kudos to people who choose love over what people think. That was a long tangent, but anyway…
I wanted to say how great I thought the post was — especially the part about giving up what your 'ideal' is and being open to love in whatever form it comes. If you had told me I'd be married to my now husband 7 years ago, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But, as you said, he 'gets me.'
D, of course you can comment! And it is strange how most of the people I know in loving relationships of all colors are surprised by how they got there. It's definitely a universal theme.
I don't know if I'm qualified to comment thoughtfully on your post because I am not currently in an IR relationship nor have I ever experienced one. The closest I ever came was bringing a black male friend (who I think is now married to a white woman) to a sorority function in Texas. Since it was not California, you can imagine how well that went over with the sisters. From that very small experience, I give great kudos to people who choose love over what people think. That was a long tangent, but anyway…
I wanted to say how great I thought the post was — especially the part about giving up what your 'ideal' is and being open to love in whatever form it comes. If you had told me I'd be married to my now husband 7 years ago, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But, as you said, he 'gets me.'
D, of course you can comment! And it is strange how most of the people I know in loving relationships of all colors are surprised by how they got there. It's definitely a universal theme.
Ernessa,
I never really considered dating outside or within my race. Like you, I just wanted a nice guy. When I started dating my husband, I was dating across the board – black men as well as men of other races. Because I don't do well w/the multi-tasking dating, I decided I had to choose the man I had the most in common with. It just happened to be him and he just happened to be white. There were no intentions of marriage on my part. I just wanted to have someone to hang out with who was also athletic, loved hiking, etc.
Oops! Too long again! Continued below…
Ernessa,
I never really considered dating outside or within my race. Like you, I just wanted a nice guy. When I started dating my husband, I was dating across the board – black men as well as men of other races. Because I don't do well w/the multi-tasking dating, I decided I had to choose the man I had the most in common with. It just happened to be him and he just happened to be white. There were no intentions of marriage on my part. I just wanted to have someone to hang out with who was also athletic, loved hiking, etc.
Oops! Too long again! Continued below…
Continued from above…
I've always had an issue w/people that dated only one race and wouldn't consider another person just because of their race. It seems like religion, political party, personality, morals, values, etc. would have more of a bearing on the health and development of a relationship than would race. I had an Asian “friend” who only dated white woman and NEVER had anything positive or nice to say about Asian women. I also have a black girlfriend who only dates white men despite the fact her mom has set her up w/really fine, educated, and nice black men. I don’t think race is necessarily the issue here; it’s the type of man, but she won’t cross the line back or anywhere else.
Once I defined the type of man I would consider if I were to get married, it significantly reduced the man pool, but not the races.
I actually think reducing your pool according to qualities that actually matter is a good thing. If you pool was small but quality, then you obviously had your priorities straight. Also, I think women sometimes underestimate how important it is to have a lot in common with your potential mate. The rest of your life is a long time. Make sure that you're going to get along.
You know what is funny, my husband and I are so very different but I find that we complement one another. So I am not sure you need to be "like" you mate. But to M&HM's point, I actually think to each their own. So I respect people if they choose to date solely within their race or within a specific race. For me that is there choice, just like dating outside of my race was mine. One thing that these last near thirteen years have taught me, if that interracial dating is not for everyone.
I think you guys have more in common than you think. You're both geniuses and you both have weirdly strong personalities. I'm not sure how many other people on earth could keep up with the both of you.
Continued from above…
I've always had an issue w/people that dated only one race and wouldn't consider another person just because of their race. It seems like religion, political party, personality, morals, values, etc. would have more of a bearing on the health and development of a relationship than would race. I had an Asian “friend” who only dated white woman and NEVER had anything positive or nice to say about Asian women. I also have a black girlfriend who only dates white men despite the fact her mom has set her up w/really fine, educated, and nice black men. I don’t think race is necessarily the issue here; it’s the type of man, but she won’t cross the line back or anywhere else.
Once I defined the type of man I would consider if I were to get married, it significantly reduced the man pool, but not the races.
I actually think reducing your pool according to qualities that actually matter is a good thing. If you pool was small but quality, then you obviously had your priorities straight. Also, I think women sometimes underestimate how important it is to have a lot in common with your potential mate. The rest of your life is a long time. Make sure that you're going to get along.
You know what is funny, my husband and I are so very different but I find that we complement one another. So I am not sure you need to be "like" you mate. But to M&HM's point, I actually think to each their own. So I respect people if they choose to date solely within their race or within a specific race. For me that is there choice, just like dating outside of my race was mine. One thing that these last near thirteen years have taught me, if that interracial dating is not for everyone.
I think you guys have more in common than you think. You're both geniuses and you both have weirdly strong personalities. I'm not sure how many other people on earth could keep up with the both of you.
I started dated outside of my race in elementary school. I went to a predominantly white, Quaker summer camp in Vermont (long story how the poor, black chyck from Trenton got there). I met a young man named Jonas and we dated (as much as one did in like fifth or sixth grade). Now, there were only a handful of black girls at the camp and even less black boys. I am not sure I made a conscious decision to date outside of my race, but it just happened. Fast forward…..what tended to happen was that I dated white guys at camp every summer and black guys at home. It was like living two different lives for a very long time……Monique at home and Nicky (Nicole is my middle name) at summer camp. Then in high school I found Monique and Nicky blending more and more (I think Nicky was always more of who I was) and I started dating white guys at home. I took a lot of crap in high school anyway, so truthfully it did not seem that much harder. After that I just dated who I liked…..black, white, latino, whatever.
But here is the funny thing. My history not withstanding, I never planned to marry outside of my race. I went to college dead set on finding my future husband……a smart, black man with a bald head or dreadlocks and glasses who majored in African-American studies and.
Instead I fell in love with a 6'3" midwestern, white guy who majored in architecture. Almost thirteen years later and I have never been happier!
The best plans… seriously though, thanks for sharing. I do wonder how many BW in our children's generation will even bother to set such limitations on themselves.
The best plans… seriously though, thanks for sharing. I do wonder how many BW in our children's generation will even bother to set race limitations on themselves.
I started dated outside of my race in elementary school. I went to a predominantly white, Quaker summer camp in Vermont (long story how the poor, black chyck from Trenton got there). I met a young man named Jonas and we dated (as much as one did in like fifth or sixth grade). Now, there were only a handful of black girls at the camp and even less black boys. I am not sure I made a conscious decision to date outside of my race, but it just happened. Fast forward…..what tended to happen was that I dated white guys at camp every summer and black guys at home. It was like living two different lives for a very long time……Monique at home and Nicky (Nicole is my middle name) at summer camp. Then in high school I found Monique and Nicky blending more and more (I think Nicky was always more of who I was) and I started dating white guys at home. I took a lot of crap in high school anyway, so truthfully it did not seem that much harder. After that I just dated who I liked…..black, white, latino, whatever.
But here is the funny thing. My history not withstanding, I never planned to marry outside of my race. I went to college dead set on finding my future husband……a smart, black man with a bald head or dreadlocks and glasses who majored in African-American studies and.
Instead I fell in love with a 6'3" midwestern, white guy who majored in architecture. Almost thirteen years later and I have never been happier!
The best plans… seriously though, thanks for sharing. I do wonder how many BW in our children's generation will even bother to set such limitations on themselves.
The best plans… seriously though, thanks for sharing. I do wonder how many BW in our children's generation will even bother to set race limitations on themselves.
Oh and one more thing. I loved the movie "Something New." And the major reason I loved it, is because it got to your point E…..choosing to love a white man does not mean that you hate black men or there is anything wrong with them. It just means that you chose the man that was best for you irrespective of race.
Oh and one more thing. I loved the movie "Something New." And the major reason I loved it, is because it got to your point E…..choosing to love a white man does not mean that you hate black men or there is anything wrong with them. It just means that you chose the man that was best for you irrespective of race.